Joe Grundy

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Posts by Joe Grundy

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  70

  How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

  fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

  a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

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  Joe Grundy

  KC99I am not 100% sure it would have been to determine if penetration had taken place. Don't forget that years back there was the view that if a woman did not scream or take other strong action to try and prevent a sexual assault then she could have essentially consented to sex and it would not be rape

  I understand your second point in terms of OT theology, flawed as it is.

  Re 'penetration' - there is a legal definition of this (at least here in UK). Do you think that 'elders' could determine whether penetration had taken place by the position of the woman's legs? Most of us in the real world know that penetration can happen with a woman's legs (vaginally or anally, and certainly digitally) firmly clamped together. Sorry, that's the real world again.

  How TF can 'elders' seek to justify these questions? I bet that a good hooker could get into positions that allow penetration that they've never dreamed of, so what makes them think they're qualified to ask these questions?

  From my experience, women trying to defend themselves against rape is not as straightforward as the OT and JWs believe.

  Just yesterday a BBC report on child grooming and abuse had a quote from a child victim to the effect 'I was on the bed with some men. They asked and I said 'yes' because I knew that if I said 'no' they would go ahead anywy.'

  That's real life.
  
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  70

  How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

  fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

  a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

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  Joe Grundy

  PS: I'm sorry, I seem to be banging on about this - but I offer no apologies whatsoever for trying to bring this to notice.

  I consider JWs generally as an inconsequential cult and their teachings as more laughable than dangerous.

  But in this area - abuse etc., - they are dangerous and destructive and despicable. They deserve my attention and I will be happy to spend my post-retirement resources, knowledge and capabilities to attack them in this area.
  
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  70

  How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

  fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

  a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

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  Joe Grundy

  "

  she was d/f'd in her late teens for sexual misconduct. apparently the elders made her describe--in graphic detail---her private behaviour.

  this cannot be right--surely?"

  No. It is absolutely wrong. It is yet more abuse.

  I can only wonder why they do this - but I think I know the answer. It is similar to sex offenders on remand in prison. They have the right (in many jurisdictions) to have the evidence prosecution to peruse. This will include graphic and detailed statements from victims describing the acts in great detail. Offenders can jerk off to these, of course, but can also sell the papers on to others to jerk off over.

  Again, sorry for reality intruding here, but this is real life.
  
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  70

  How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

  fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

  a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

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  Joe Grundy

  konceptual99

  Thank you for that extract.

  Then I ask my question again in simple terms (that's what detectives do, until it's answered).

  WTF did elders on the JC ask this lady to demonstrate how far her legs were apart?

  (And do they know, for example, what position a woman's legs need to be in before penile penetration is feasible? Sorry to bring this back to real life but that can be the only justification (?) for such a question).
  
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  70

  How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

  fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

  a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

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  Joe Grundy

  I enjoy debates about JW history, was practices, biblical accuracy, etc., and these are in an academic way.

  But this issue is completely different. I have no desire to tell 'war stories' but sometimes a dose of reality, bringing things back to 'real life' is necessary because generally (thankfully) the 'general public' is protected from this. What is reported, what is prevented as evidence in court cases, is usually a farirly sanitised version. The comments the young lady made brought a lot of stuff home to me.

  If you want to maintain your innocence, scroll on by from here......

  When a professional investigates rape or abuse they will cover as much detail as possible. Partly for legal reasons (how far in does something have to be before it is legally 'penetration'? Labia majora or labia minora?). If a male perpetrator, was he circumcised (explain this to a child). Peculiar or particular behaviour? ('Similar fact' evidence, corroboration). And so on.

  These are, ladies and gentlemen, the unpleasant and raw facts of dealing with this sort of stuff. A particularly unpleasant man I dealt with liked to use a cucumber anally on his 13 year old stepdaughter while raping her vaginally. It was relevant because he did the same on other rape victims.

  This is life as it happens, and I wish it wasn't. (Imagine going home and your wife asks what you did in work today).

  But to think that JW elders are going down this route ...

  We had support systems available for the victims (poor as they sometimes were).

  And for those who find it hard to think outside the bubble of their comfortable lives I offer this as an exercise. When you go home, ask your wife/partner to recall the last time you had sex. Now invite three neighbours (men) round and ask her to demonstrate the position and explain in detail who put what where.

  That's the reality of investigating this stuff.

  Barry, south Wales, is a couple of hours drive. I'm tempted to visit their KH.
  
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  70

  How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

  fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

  a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

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  Joe Grundy

  PS: Feel uncomfortable about the thread title? Good. Now think about how you would feel if you were the victim. Oh, and as I understand it a woman can't wear trousers in front of a JC, can she?
  
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  70

  How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

  fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

  a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

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• 

  Joe Grundy

  Several threads on here about the excellent BBC R4 programme this week ('The Report') focussing on rape and abuse in Barry, South Wales, JWs. Fat pervert Mark Sewell later got 14 years and I hope he is enjoying every minute of it.

  The courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.

  The quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and I hope, on all listeners.

  Forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics. A rape victim was asked to demonstrate - TO DEMONSTRATE, FFS - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.

  I have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and I used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

  It may be possible to identify who the elders on the JC were. (Any suggestions gratefully received). They should be named and shamed as individuals. After all, if they felt they were acting on the instructions of their god, they'd be happy to justify it, right? And would be happy to explain to people they meet in D2D or on the carts why they did this. And to justify to their wives and families why this was necessary and commanded by their god?

  My main point is this (sorry if I repeat myself). Forget JWs, theological stuff, reduce it to basics. How can this possibly have happened?

  (Declaration of interest: I was never a JW. My daughter was raped at 17.)
  
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  39

  Child Abuse - "I don't care. I haven't got any children".

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  earlier this week i bumped into a couple of jws who i recognised from the cult cart.

  a few months ago i had a long conversation with him one of them and found him to be quite friendly.

  he is new to the area in the years since i left.. this time he was very defensive and said he wasn't allowed to talk to me.

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  Joe Grundy

  Difficult to find the words to describe this comment. Bet he felt proud of himself afterwards (not). And would feel even prouder if his non JW associates (e.g. in the workplace) heard him say it.

  Seems to me that when JWs know they have nothing to say they fall back on infantile comments.
  
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  50

  The Report - BBC Radio 4 about Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Sexual Abuse can now be heard

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0612hjs.

  the report about child abuse and jehovah's witnesses is now live.. jehovah's witnesses handle child abuse cases.

  jehovah's witnesses and child sexual abuse, the report - bbc radio 4 .

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  Joe Grundy

  "Perhaps this will inspire Britain to take the first step towards examining the 'charity' status of the WTBTS!"

  This is already under way with the Charity Commission. WTBTS has recently lost a tribunal case and has been ordered to hand over documents.
  
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  32

  BBC radio Prog " The Report" this week on JW Child Abuse

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0612hjs.

  to be broadcast at 20.00 hrs british summer time this thursday, available on bbc i-player shortly after broadcast..

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  Joe Grundy

  It was very well done, I think. Balanced and honest. Well done BBC!